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Hot Take: I *like* it when people explain jokes.
Even if I understand the joke, it's soothing to know I didn't miss anything. BUT often I *did* miss something and didn't even know!
Explaining a joke does not "ruin it." I don't understand why people say that. (Although, I can see how explaining a joke, because it's just not a very good is bad. But, the if joke isn't good ... not explaining it isn't going to make it any better.)
If someone asks you to explain a joke I think you should just explain it and be nice. It should be more socially acceptable to ask for a joke to be explained and people who groan and shout "now it's ruined" need to stop.
In fact, some jokes become more funny when they are carefully explained, especially if you try to be very neutral and clinical about it. "And you see, it is humorous that..." give it a try!
@futurebird given that telling a joke is a form of performance art, yes, adding an explanation can dramatically enhance said performance
@futurebird I learned to empathise with French humour, which was quite foreign to me, because friends patiently explained their jokes to me. Explaining jokes is an art - and a boon for all foreign language speakers.
@NatureMC @futurebird It’s true. When I first came to Japan, the humor was so alien to me. It was only through patient explanations from friends, and repeated exposure, that I learned to just “get it” without explanation.
@futurebird
100% agree and furthermore it should be low-key socially unacceptable to refuse to give a little time to explaining _anything_ someone publicly professes ignorance of our not having understood. There's an ocean between that and sealioning.
@futurebird More than one person has told me they can't do an image description of a punchline or a meme because it "ruins the joke." Not if the joke is any good!
@bright_helpings @futurebird I tried to find the reference but got dangerously close to getting lost in the book[0] instead.
One of the Simpsons writers is apparently noted for his ability to explain a joke in a funny way. At the end of the day, I think it's no harm to let people know what is supposed to be funny either way. Same if it's for non-native speakers of a language - "it's a pun on Dubaier/du Bayerisch in German" at least lets you know the joke isn't on you.
[0] recommended! https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/the-simpsons-and-their-mathematical-secrets-simon-singh/4086035?ean=9781408842812
@futurebird 1/2
I mostly agree, but with a caveat, and a different issue which is actually a very different reason to ask for an explanation:
A: Explaining things is a difficult skill, and many people don't have it, and so, while anyone encountering a joke deserves an explanation, it's not necessarily the case that the joke teller is adequately equipped to provide an explanation.
@futurebird 2/2
B: but also ... usa culture is full of horrid jokes which are actually propaganda disguised as humor, meant to attack some marginalized group. Making the joke teller uncomfortable by asking them to explain that their joke is such a thing is a legitimate tactic. (I'm sure you know this, but somehow I can't just let this thread go on without this important point being mentioned.)
@futurebird . I think most jokes her explained after something like this, "Why aren't you laughing? You didn't get it. Let me explain."
@futurebird if the reason the joke needs explaining is that it's too inside or just not funny, someone who appreciates the craft of humor can take that as useful feedback.
@futurebird I really like making jokes with such obscure references that I know only a few people will get them, but if someone asks me for clarification I take it as an invitation to let them in on it.
With my wife and with one old buddy, we have a lot of private jokes that would literally not work told to anyone else, and sometimes even those dance on the edge of working with nobody at all.
@mattmcirvin @futurebird 1/2
I used to love making obscure jokes, and then explaining them, but as I grew older, I encountered problems. First, most of said obscure jokes involved references to books I'd read, and too often somebody wanted an explanation of the joke, but not an explanation of the book. And I sympathize; when someone makes a joke film/tv reference, usually, I'm not sufficiently interested in the tv or film to listen to an explanation.
@mattmcirvin @futurebird 2/2
Later, my feelings about many of the books I'd read changed to the point where I didn't want to talk about them. Then, working in the computer industry destroyed my love for computing, which ruined explaining computer jokes.
@futurebird The "now it's ruined" crowd are, in my experience, just indulging in a false sense of superiority. It basically means "Hey, I was enjoying feeling I was part of an in-group and that people not getting it were dumb!"
@futurebird Be sure to add knee slaps and cackles. :D
@futurebird I experience the same with films, games and sports results/plots. 
No problem telling me, and don’t actually onderstand why people don’t want to know. I do respect it, though. As for puzzles or cryptograms… Not interested in finding a solution. It’s something already known… just tell or show me. Life has its own interesting problems to solve…
@futurebird one of my current favorite jokes has the explanation flow *inbuilt* - as a mechanism for building on the joke.
It isn't mine, but I like to think I've put my own spin on it, but delivering the joke and then waiting for the recipient to signal a bed for greater explanation before proceeding with the last third:
"A horse walks into a bar. The bartender looks up and says, 'hey pal, why the long face? Are you depressed?'"
"The horse replies, 'I don't think I am--' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic."
"You see, this is a joke about the esteemed logician, Rene Descartes. I would have told you that at the beginning, but then I would have been putting Descartes before the horse."
@futurebird
I'm very interested in the art of explaining a joke well. I think there are good ways of doing it, which help to reinforce the tension (e.g. between expectation & reality) that makes the joke funny. The bad ways of doing it, which I think is what people are objecting to with "omg don't explain it!!", can sap some of the joy of the joke by trying to approach it too clinically, though. (E.g. one might point out that part of the joke is based on a popular misapprehension, which invites the explainee to distance themselves from people who would find this joke funny [who must be "dumb", whereas the explainer must be "smart"].) I think this sort of approach can meaningfully kill a joke, insofar as it makes it difficult to feel what the joke is meant to make you feel.
A lot of allistic people who aren't huge overthinkers ime aren't going to think about a joke as something that has structure. To them it's either dumb (which, often, funny), or mystifying (which, you'd better mask!!!). Unpacking why a joke makes you feel a certain way isn't usually something they're well-equipped to think through.
To begin with, humor, the means to interpret something as funny, is apparently quite relative. Once I read an article stating that the means of humor inGgerman is quite broad while in other cultures, or languages, it can be quite narrow.
That was a the moment I realized that it's not necessary about the a good or bad joke but the capacity of the one who is capable to find humor in a "joke".
It's a little bit like always, the beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.
@futurebird Hot Take: When explaining a joke ruins it, it is because you are just making fun of someone, and explaining it just makes it obvious that you are being cruel. In other words, you just made a bad joke.
@uncanny_static ... or indeed, no joke at all.
CC: @futurebird
@futurebird If explaining the joke ruins it, it can't have been that funny
@clayote @futurebird makes me think of Teller of the magicians Penn & Teller, they have two routines I know of that involve Penn giving real time narration of exactly what Teller is doing. One a routine explaining basic stage magic methods and the other is the old Cups and Balls routine (which is also done using clear cups so you can see inside them). But Teller does each so smoothly with such skill that explaining only makes it even better.
@futurebird I think I agree. That said, I do find it irritating when a "comedy" film/show has someone (else, usually) explain every single joke, I guess to make sure the audience doesn't miss any of them.
@futurebird getting to see the contextual reality of something is fascinating. Jokes are hyperlinks in culture.
@futurebird On social media, I often post things that ONLY my close circles from different periods of my life will "get." Total in-jokes.
Turns out that's OK with everyone except a couple of very strait-laced fam, not gonna win with them anyway.
If someone should ask, I just tell them and that's also OK.
BTW in one of my best laugh reactions ever, I capitalized the pronoun WHO for emphasis. Then someone tried to side-door a subtle reply about the health org, and it fell soooo flat...
@harmonygritz @futurebird Now you've got me trying to think of a "WHO's on first" joke. I should stop now because, believe me, it won't be pretty.
@futurebird Toots that make me sad that https://explainingthejoke.tumblr.com isn't updating anymore.
@futurebird Strongly agree. There's something about being able to say "I see what you did there" that only enhances the experience IMO. Same with any art form -- there's a ton of pleasure in looking for the "what you did".