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A single-board command-line computer using the esp32. Look at it! It's cute. Can't buy it yet the creator is starting some kind of online commune for single-board computer freaks. I bet some of you are around here, go say hi at his forum it only has like two posts and its making me sad.
There is a practical side to my interest in minimalist computers:
I have this notion about a math/CS curriculum where students build and program their own calculators. Once you make the calculator do it you never need to do it yourself again.
I have my students program their TI84s to factor, and simplify square roots, any annoying task can become a more annoying but also more fun programming project.
They seem to really like it.
@futurebird Reminds me vaguely of the Psion that I used to have years ago.
@rayhindle @futurebird when I was on ST World Magazine, Atari lent me one of these to use
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atari_Portfolio
I really liked it, took it most places I went, and found it sort of useful-ish as far as a completely disconnected device like that could be back then for someone who doesn’t punctuate their life with meetings and had never used a spreadsheet
I bought a Cambridge Z88 when Atari wanted the Portfolio back, so I must’ve missed it in some indefinable way
@u0421793 @futurebird @rayhindle my experience is ever since the late 70 they had been promising us an actual pocket computer but it has NEVER happened. sigh... it's always some gimicky toy thing like modern smartphones.
@barrygoldman1 @u0421793 @futurebird The Psion came pretty close. It was a serious computer, not an electronic organiser.
@rayhindle @u0421793 @futurebird yes, definitely a few WERE produced (i had for a little while an HP one that ALMOST had an opererating system)
but they never become mainstream! where's those psions now?
@barrygoldman1 If memory serves, Psion were bribed by Microsoft to stop producing as they had them worried! Eventually, they were taken over by Motorola Solutions.
@barrygoldman1
What do you feel is missing from modern smartphones that keeps you from using them as an "actual pocket computer"? Is it the interface? Just how locked down they are by default? Some other critical pieces missing?
@mnemonicoverload @barrygoldman1 @rayhindle @u0421793
A smart phone that has a command line and snaps into a thing with mechanical keys on the back?
@futurebird
Interesting. Those are definitely things I had on my early Android phones and while I do miss good keyboard phones I don't feel like there were things I used to do that I stopped doing on my phone after they became unavailable. As for having access to a terminal UI that's definitely something you can still get for an Android device, but not something I found particularly essential. I do use a Midnight Commander clone (Ghost Commander) for file management on my current phone though.
Here is what is missing. The phone is an isolated environment. What I mean is all the apps are disconnected.
On my computer if I am writing and have a phone question I can pull up Wikipedia and not just read it, because I can do that on the phone, but place it next to my writing and refer back and forth
Or open the same file in two programs to fix formatting or whatnot.
I can run a server and change code and see it update in the browser.
In theory I could do graphics design on the phone, but without the space of a monitor it’s not great. And I can plug my phone into a monitor. It doesn’t work well.
So instead of having a bunch of things open to work on something. I have to find something to work on that only needs a single app.
An app that probably needs a subscription.
I want to use my phone more. I keep trying to. But it fights it all the time.
@mnemonicoverload @futurebird @rayhindle @u0421793 i can't run linux and python on it? i have to subscribe to some apple or google store shit to download software? there's too much hidden on it? it doesn't handle text and text files well..
@barrygoldman1
Okay, so mostly it's how locked down it is by default. The *nix underpinnings are there on both Android or iOS, they're just locked down and hidden away from the user. You can get close to what you want with a lot of work rooting and installing a custom OS on an Android device but it's a lot of work and you have to make sure you pick a model that's well supported by the community in the first place.
There have been several attempts at fully open source products like the current Fairphone and Pinephone projects that go in that direction to varying degrees of success but they lack mass market appeal and aren't available at the lower price points that consumers used to contract subsidized devices are accustomed to paying.
@mnemonicoverload @barrygoldman1 @rayhindle @futurebird I say they’re almost there, and in most cases, my iPhone is the thing I’ll use where 20 years ago I’d have used a ‘computer’
To be honest I use my iPad mini far more than I use any other computer, I have it sitting here on the arm of my settee and a Logitech Bluetooth keyboard beside it for putting on my lap and typing like I’m doing now, and I could also use the keyboard on my iPhone (it’s just easier to prop up the iPad on the arm of the settee so it’s facing me instead of facing the ceiling) (and a bit bigger too) but there’s not much that can’t occur on the iPad that I have to get up and reach for the MacBook for, so they’re all blurring together nicely
The weak points still are getting my hand movements into the device, and I still laugh at QWERTY keyboards as being the most ridiculous things ever to have survived computerisation (and if aliens ever land, we must hide them all or they’ll piss themselves laughing when we explain them) and the other weak point is having a display that is fixed in size to a tiny area of my field of view – but something like an Apple Vision might solve that, although I suspect that is not the correct direction at all, and the correct direction is something that hasn’t occurred to anyone today yet
@futurebird I recently read the article on "NanoProcessor" from a 1985 issue of "Home Computing Magazine" and it sorta fits this.
https://archive.org/details/HomeComputerMagazine_Vol5_05/page/n13/mode/2up
It's fascinating that this was an article in a popular magazine! (The BASIC listing is in the back.)
Completely agree, effort & learning should move you forward. It's tool making, part of being a fun, lazy human.
Make something to do what is boring, repetitive or prone to human errors.
Started with flint napping to save wearing your teeth down, ends up with programing a calculator to plot a curve to save pulling your hair out.
Might take more time than the individual task but teaches about how capable you are. Gives you more time & a better view for the next insight.
@futurebird There's one for the quotes filen
@futurebird i value the learning experience i had in high schoo/college of studying digital electronics form the transistor on up hierarchically to central processsing units and then learning to progem them in machine code. i think it gives important insights philosophically.
and then at the same time i learned about molecular biology.
and then i can contrast the two...
i never did put together my complexity lab manual...
https://complexitylabs.blogspot.com/2009/04/8-from-transistors-to-computers.html
@futurebird oh hey wow yes that dovetails with fantasies we had as kids
@futurebird it's always been how we've approached new technologies, really. we go out of our way to make sure we know how to do it the hard way, and what the machine is doing for us, before we adopt a new layer of automation.
sometimes (like when we insisted on learning plain TeX before LaTeX) this means splitting things into finer-grained pieces than others recommend. we stand by it.
@futurebird It makes a huge difference when you're working on a scale where you feel like you can comprehend what you're doing and seeing the results.
The most fun I've had with computers in recent years was setting up little web services on an SBC.
I have this notion about a math/CS curriculum where students build and program their own calculators. Once you make the calculator do it you never need to do it yourself again.
for the same reason that "writing is thinking" is true, so too is "programming is calculation" true.
by working through the steps required to produce a result, and fully understanding each step, they have a much more solid understanding of what's going on than if they practiced rote memorization (worse) or continual computation (better, not best tho)
especially if every step of the way is accompanied with visual elements which show exactly what is happening. Some people are more visual, some people are more algorithmic, and finding a way to teach all types of people is a truly difficult and rewarding part of teaching.