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"You'd expect this from Joe Scarborough he's a far left opinion commentator."
-Fox Anchor
Joe Scarborough served as a Republican in the FL house. And ... as a member of the far left I'm deeply insulted. As I think Joe would be too. We are in crazy town.
"far left"
@futurebird yeah but he has a show on MSNBC and we all know that there is literally no difference between neoliberalism and communism
@hazelnot @futurebird
> “literally no difference between neoliberalism and communism “
I can’t figure out whether conservatives who say stuff like this misunderstand liberalism, or communism, or just don’t care. Help a guy out and tell me?
The 2nd issue is most Americans have a vastly truncated political perspective. "Communism" means the same thing as "left."
This is in part the fault of us media which has for decades only given air to a very limited spectrum of ideas. And when people felt constrained by the sameness of their options they have opened the escape valve on the right ONLY.
Because they know the OTHER escape valve leads to social democracy and the end of the wealth gap.
@futurebird @alloydflanagan @hazelnot This is why I've been saying for years now that the Democrats aren't gaining anything by attempting to meet the Republicans halfway on any issue.
They scream and call Biden a communist while he busts the rail workers' unions. It's absurd. Biden could try to pass actual communist policies, and he would apparently get the exact same amount of pushback. So why not? What is he getting out of "cooperating" with people who won't cooperate back?
@sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot
Well... Biden is a centrist, if not right leaning and he has no interest in doing left wing things. He's been dragged kicking and screaming to do the few good things he has by "political realities"
Did you know they have a poll that shows that if Biden talked more about "taxing the rich" etc. he'd go up like 5 points in polls? They know. But ... that part of the Democratic party would rather not. Their ONLY redeeming quality is that they might... half way.
@futurebird @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot
A wise person on fedi persuaded me that the Democrats (at least, the currently-ascendant faction within them) would rather lose the election than raise those taxes.
If they raise the taxes, they reduce the power of the hyperwealthy, which to them is bad.
If they let the Republicans win, then the electorate will be punished brutally for daring to not lick boot, and will crawl back to the Democrats at the next election anyway.
@futurebird @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot he is what we have at the moment versus a full blown fascist. Say what you want but he has stood with Unions in a way no president has done in 70 years.
@Flowermob @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot
You don't need to convince me. We need to reach people who, given all the information would probably vote against Trump, however they have not thought about the election or voting yet and will pay possibly a total of one hour of attention to political news in the coming months. This will inform if they bother to vote and for who.
What can quickly make a lasting impression?
Something that isn't "or else"
@futurebird @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot On the one hand, you're describing how representative democracy is supposed to work.
On the other hand, Biden seems pretty unequivocal about the need to raise taxes on the highest earners and corporations.
It's kinda funny to me that you're replying to someone who says that Biden "busts the rail workers' unions" when he... didn't? He got them the deal they wanted without a strike that would have hurt (literally) everyone.
@tob @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot
He really only was clear on the tax issue in the most recent state of the union. He should say it more often.
He came around on rail-workers only after facing heavy criticism.
We are seeing a similar "evolution" with his position towards the Israeli government. Though, unlike these domestic examples we didn't really have the time to wait for the evolution
-- well perhaps we in the US had the time but the children of Palestine did not.
@tob @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot
Really unless you want to try to argue that Biden isn't a centrist I don't see what we have to talk about here? He is a centrist who is out of step with vast portions of his party and he's doing his best to keep up. That isn't ideal for leadership.
Student loans is another issue. He has, slowly and painfully done a great deal to keep his promise. All while almost acting embarrassed about doing it so much that many people think it didn't happen.
@futurebird @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot I don't really want to argue at all. The only reason I'm going to reply is because your replies feel like gaslighting.
Take out your subjective reading of how Biden *feels* about things and just look at what he's made happen as President.
@tob @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot
This happens a lot. People explaining how no, in fact, Biden is really great but for some reason it's just not catching.
I'm suggesting that reason is in part because of the image he projects.
It doesn't matter if you make things happen and no one knows about it. How he "feels" to the general voting public is kind of the entire problem.
I do think he's trying if only because he understands how bad this could get.
@futurebird @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot Now that I agree with.
I wonder though if this perception problem isn't also an "us" problem.
Progressives have spent so long on the political sidelines, complaining that politicians don't listen to us even though we're right.
Now that we have the President of the United States listening to us and we can't handle it.
He's doing what we want him to do and it's working! This is terrible! It can't last! There must be some sort of trick!
@futurebird @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot My take is that Biden is a centrist *in process* and center-left (at least) in personal policy preference. And where a lot of discourse is about him being pressured into certain good policies, I see those “pressuring actions” as providing him cover to enact those policies while holding the coalition together. And while he needs to mobilize the left, drawing swing voters is also critical.
@futurebird @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot He’s governing like a guy with a divided Congress, and getting bills through that I wouldn’t have imagined. Give him a solid Dem advantage, and you’ll see a different President, whether that’s his desire (I think) or “political reality.”
@jakemiller @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot
I've been paying attention to Biden since he was a senator and I have no idea where you're getting any of this.
You know he's historically just barely even pro-choice right? He was picked by Obama as VP due to the perception that Obama was "very left" (Obama wasn't) Biden was a solidly moderate Democrat *in a time when Democrats were generally more right leaning than they are now.*
And on Israel he's way out of step.
Look at his record.
@futurebird @jakemiller @alloydflanagan @hazelnot This is why I was glad that Biden didn't run in 2016 and was so irritated that he did run in 2020. Biden was a conservative compromise candidate... in 2008. It's not like his politics have gotten better since then.
I don't think Biden is going to stop American fascism. I worry he's just making it more palatable for democrats.
@sidereal @jakemiller @alloydflanagan @hazelnot
"It's not like his politics have gotten better since then."
Come on, objectively he's gotten better since then. He used to support the Hyde amendment. He's let that go. (and made sad noises about it that didn't help)
Voting isn't how you stop fascism anyways. It's just an obvious step among many. Like packing a lunch. Why make it harder?
Will the sandwich get you up the mountain? NO.
Can having no lunch stop you? Yes.
@futurebird @sidereal it's pretty disturbing to me when these kinds of conversations happen and no voice at all is given to queer issues, on which he's been significantly ahead of the party on on multiple occasions
@sidereal @futurebird @jakemiller For me, bring liberal is less important than not being a crook, not supporting insurrections, and being reasonably sane. And I’m flexible on the crook thing.
"center-left (at least) in personal policy preference"
I think it's really dangerous to have head-cannons about what politicians are *really* like. We have their actions, and what they've said.
The positive thing I can say about Biden is this: he's a good politician. (no shade) His previous positions and even some of his ongoing comments show that he's responsive to the party, and takes it seriously.
But, without all of the protests, letters, articles he would not be where he is now. When lives are on the line it's hard to be patient.
We aren't really getting leadership from a vision, but rather stewardship.
Stewardship is OK. Just OK. Tolerable.
@futurebird 
! He’s good at his job. But he’s focused on getting legislation, rather than laying out a sweeping vision. Broad, simple principles, but not inspiration.
He does a great job in understanding the space of what’s possible, and getting laws on the left side of that space.
For all of the shouts about him being a commie, it isn’t sticking. That’s why they have to accuse him of being old.
He navigates these contradictions better than I thought possible.
@futurebird @jakemiller I hear you, but I must say that for Gaza this is not tolerable at all.
@futurebird @sidereal @alloydflanagan @hazelnot Democrats don't get elected for being progressive, they get elected for not being Republicans. They need to keep Republicans around and a legitimate adversary or they wouldn't get votes.